Camera advice


Kurt
 

About to buy a Canon DSLR, not a full frame,  and have Hap remove the IR filter.  Looking at B&H, I see these choices in my price range:
Canon EOS Rebel SL3 DSLR Camera $599.99
Canon EOS Rebel T8i DSLR Camera  $749.99
Canon EOS 80D DSLR Camera $899.00
Canon EOS 90D DSLR Camera  $1,199.00

I will be using it with my AP Stowaway ( 92mm f/6.65), I think all I care about is
 - ability to focus using the camera back
 - effective low noise/ high ISO
 - ability to use my  Canon TC-80N3 Timer Remote (with cable adapter) that I use on my current Canon EOS Rebel SL1 DSLR
 
I would love comments about which one would be best.  I don't want to go mirror-less as I want to also use my Canon lenses and my 2 old Nikon lenses (already on Canon adapters), but please let me know if you think that is a mistake.
 
Thanks all.
 


Christopher Erickson
 

My vote is for the full-frame, mirrorless, Nikon Z6ii. Unmodified.

The most fun I have EVER had with an SLR/dSLR/Mirrorless doing casual astro.

And I can use all of my old Nikon F lenses and even my Canon EF lenses on it.

Nikon AF-S = all modes and features work on the Z cams.
Nikon AF = all modes and features except autofocus work on the Z cams.
Nikon Ai = full aperture manual focusing, aperture priority automatic exposure.
Nikon A manual = Manual focusing, manual aperture, aperture priority automatic exposure.
Canon EF = Manual focusing, manual aperture, aperture priority automatic exposure.

"My advice is always free and worth every penny!"

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, Hawaii


On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 5:09 PM Kurt <kurtfriedrich@...> wrote:
About to buy a Canon DSLR, not a full frame,  and have Hap remove the IR filter.  Looking at B&H, I see these choices in my price range:
Canon EOS Rebel SL3 DSLR Camera $599.99
Canon EOS Rebel T8i DSLR Camera  $749.99
Canon EOS 80D DSLR Camera $899.00
Canon EOS 90D DSLR Camera  $1,199.00

I will be using it with my AP Stowaway ( 92mm f/6.65), I think all I care about is
 - ability to focus using the camera back
 - effective low noise/ high ISO
 - ability to use my  Canon TC-80N3 Timer Remote (with cable adapter) that I use on my current Canon EOS Rebel SL1 DSLR
 
I would love comments about which one would be best.  I don't want to go mirror-less as I want to also use my Canon lenses and my 2 old Nikon lenses (already on Canon adapters), but please let me know if you think that is a mistake.
 
Thanks all.
 


Stuart
 

Christopher, I bought the Nikon Z6ii and it is indeed a superb camera. 


On Fri, 24 Sept 2021 at 23:28, Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...> wrote:
My vote is for the full-frame, mirrorless, Nikon Z6ii. Unmodified.

The most fun I have EVER had with an SLR/dSLR/Mirrorless doing casual astro.

And I can use all of my old Nikon F lenses and even my Canon EF lenses on it.

Nikon AF-S = all modes and features work on the Z cams.
Nikon AF = all modes and features except autofocus work on the Z cams.
Nikon Ai = full aperture manual focusing, aperture priority automatic exposure.
Nikon A manual = Manual focusing, manual aperture, aperture priority automatic exposure.
Canon EF = Manual focusing, manual aperture, aperture priority automatic exposure.

"My advice is always free and worth every penny!"

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, Hawaii


On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 5:09 PM Kurt <kurtfriedrich@...> wrote:
About to buy a Canon DSLR, not a full frame,  and have Hap remove the IR filter.  Looking at B&H, I see these choices in my price range:
Canon EOS Rebel SL3 DSLR Camera $599.99
Canon EOS Rebel T8i DSLR Camera  $749.99
Canon EOS 80D DSLR Camera $899.00
Canon EOS 90D DSLR Camera  $1,199.00

I will be using it with my AP Stowaway ( 92mm f/6.65), I think all I care about is
 - ability to focus using the camera back
 - effective low noise/ high ISO
 - ability to use my  Canon TC-80N3 Timer Remote (with cable adapter) that I use on my current Canon EOS Rebel SL1 DSLR
 
I would love comments about which one would be best.  I don't want to go mirror-less as I want to also use my Canon lenses and my 2 old Nikon lenses (already on Canon adapters), but please let me know if you think that is a mistake.
 
Thanks all.
 


Eric Weiner
 

Why restricting your search to smaller than full frame? A Canon EOS 6D Mark II is another good choice. You can find some used in excellent condition for much less than retail.

Eric


Chris Cook
 

I agree with Eric. Look into used FF cameras like the Canon 6D (which I had Hap modify), 6D2, Nikon D750.

Chris

----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Weiner <weinere@comcast.net>
Reply-To: <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
To: <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Sent: 9/25/2021 12:29:22 AM
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Camera advice
________________________________________________________________________________

Why restricting your search to smaller than full frame? A Canon EOS 6D Mark II is another good choice. You can find some used in excellent condition for much less than retail.

Eric


Eric Weiner
 

Actually after a bit of reading the others are suggesting better strictly astrophotography camera bodies. My suggestion of the 6D2 is not the best option. After comparing these 4 bodies an unmod Nikon Z6ii really does lead the pack. The 6D and 750 are a close second, each with their own pros and cons. 


https://www.digicamdb.com/compare/nikon_z6-ii-vs-canon_eos-6d/


Kurt
 

I was assuming that the Stowaway would not produce a flat enough field to make use of a full-frame.
Anyone here have a Stowaway and full-frame that could confirm or refute that?

Also, I think you might have missed that "in my price range". I'd like to be under or at least close to $1000.

thanks


Bill Long
 

The Stowaway and its field flattener has a 50mm corrected field.


From: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> on behalf of Kurt <kurtfriedrich@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2021 10:03 PM
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Camera advice
 
I was assuming that the Stowaway would not produce a flat enough field to make use of a full-frame.
Anyone here have a Stowaway and full-frame that could confirm or refute that?

Also, I think you might have missed that "in my price range". I'd like to be under or at least close to $1000.

thanks


Christopher Erickson
 

I use the AP flattener with my Stowaway and Z6ii.

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 7:08 AM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
The Stowaway and its field flattener has a 50mm corrected field.


From: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> on behalf of Kurt <kurtfriedrich@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2021 10:03 PM
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Camera advice
 
I was assuming that the Stowaway would not produce a flat enough field to make use of a full-frame.
Anyone here have a Stowaway and full-frame that could confirm or refute that?

Also, I think you might have missed that "in my price range". I'd like to be under or at least close to $1000.

thanks


Christopher Erickson
 

The HotechUSA flattener isn't as big as the AP flattener but it will cover a full 35mm frame, IIRC, and is less moola.

And using a full frame chip still works fine if you are willing to crop and tweak a bit during processing. And you can invest in a flattener later.

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   


On Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 11:10 AM Christopher Erickson via groups.io <christopher.k.erickson=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I use the AP flattener with my Stowaway and Z6ii.

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 7:08 AM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
The Stowaway and its field flattener has a 50mm corrected field.


From: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> on behalf of Kurt <kurtfriedrich@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2021 10:03 PM
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Camera advice
 
I was assuming that the Stowaway would not produce a flat enough field to make use of a full-frame.
Anyone here have a Stowaway and full-frame that could confirm or refute that?

Also, I think you might have missed that "in my price range". I'd like to be under or at least close to $1000.

thanks


Kurt
 

Looking at AP site:

"The 92 Stowaway’s Telecompressor Corrector (92TCC) is used to provide 0.80x image reduction while correcting the field curvature that is inherent in all refracting telescopes. It will provide pin point stars to the very corners of an APS-C camera sensor. It has a corrected image circle of approximately 40 mm"

"The 92 Stowaway’s Field Flattener (92FF) is used to correct the field curvature that is inherent in all refracting telescopes. It will provide pin point stars to the very corners of a full frame camera sensor and has a corrected image circle of approximately 50 mm."

I think the Nikon Z6ii  needs  c = 43.1mm   (a** + b** = c**)

thanks all


thefamily90 Phillips
 

I bought one as well. Great camera.

JimP


From: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> on behalf of Stuart <stuart.j.heggie@...>
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2021 11:46:53 PM
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Camera advice
 
Christopher, I bought the Nikon Z6ii and it is indeed a superb camera. 


On Fri, 24 Sept 2021 at 23:28, Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...> wrote:
My vote is for the full-frame, mirrorless, Nikon Z6ii. Unmodified.

The most fun I have EVER had with an SLR/dSLR/Mirrorless doing casual astro.

And I can use all of my old Nikon F lenses and even my Canon EF lenses on it.

Nikon AF-S = all modes and features work on the Z cams.
Nikon AF = all modes and features except autofocus work on the Z cams.
Nikon Ai = full aperture manual focusing, aperture priority automatic exposure.
Nikon A manual = Manual focusing, manual aperture, aperture priority automatic exposure.
Canon EF = Manual focusing, manual aperture, aperture priority automatic exposure.

"My advice is always free and worth every penny!"

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, Hawaii


On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 5:09 PM Kurt <kurtfriedrich@...> wrote:
About to buy a Canon DSLR, not a full frame,  and have Hap remove the IR filter.  Looking at B&H, I see these choices in my price range:
Canon EOS Rebel SL3 DSLR Camera $599.99
Canon EOS Rebel T8i DSLR Camera  $749.99
Canon EOS 80D DSLR Camera $899.00
Canon EOS 90D DSLR Camera  $1,199.00

I will be using it with my AP Stowaway ( 92mm f/6.65), I think all I care about is
 - ability to focus using the camera back
 - effective low noise/ high ISO
 - ability to use my  Canon TC-80N3 Timer Remote (with cable adapter) that I use on my current Canon EOS Rebel SL1 DSLR
 
I would love comments about which one would be best.  I don't want to go mirror-less as I want to also use my Canon lenses and my 2 old Nikon lenses (already on Canon adapters), but please let me know if you think that is a mistake.
 
Thanks all.
 


--
Jim Phillips


Sébastien Doré
 

Hi,

Just curious, does this one (or the newer Nikons in genereal) still have the per-shot dark substraction (a.k.a. "star-eating" noise reduction) always on like some (all ?) older models or can it be turned off like on the Canons ?

Sébastien


De : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> de la part de thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...>
Envoyé : 1 novembre 2021 10:27
À : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [ap-ug] Camera advice
 
I bought one as well. Great camera.

JimP


 

Hi Sébastien

>>>Just curious, does this one (or the newer Nikons in genereal) still have the per-shot dark substraction (a.k.a. "star-eating" noise reduction) always on like some (all ?) older models or can it be turned off like on the Canons ?

you can disable long exposure and/or high ISO noise reduction 

the "star eating" noise reduction where i've heard it's a problem was specifically in some Sony mirrorless cameras where the raw file wasn't actually raw, and had some additional unwanted in-camera processing 

On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 7:57 AM Seb@stro <sebastiendore1@...> wrote:
Hi,

Just curious, does this one (or the newer Nikons in genereal) still have the per-shot dark substraction (a.k.a. "star-eating" noise reduction) always on like some (all ?) older models or can it be turned off like on the Canons ?

Sébastien


De : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> de la part de thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...>
Envoyé : 1 novembre 2021 10:27
À : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [ap-ug] Camera advice
 
I bought one as well. Great camera.

JimP



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Sébastien Doré
 

Hey Brian,

I'm a bit surprised but that's good to know !

I have been under the impression that the long exposure NR was never entirely off in the Nikons for a long time. Dates back from when I first bought my Canon about 7-8 years ago when I was much less knowledgeable about photography and cameras, so I might have misunderstood how it worked or been mislead by some Canon aficionados at the time, IDK...

Anyway, that opens up a whole new branch of options to consider for my next DSLR purchase.

Sébastien


De : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> de la part de Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Envoyé : 1 novembre 2021 11:06
À : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [ap-ug] Camera advice
 
Hi Sébastien

>>>Just curious, does this one (or the newer Nikons in genereal) still have the per-shot dark substraction (a.k.a. "star-eating" noise reduction) always on like some (all ?) older models or can it be turned off like on the Canons ?

you can disable long exposure and/or high ISO noise reduction 

the "star eating" noise reduction where i've heard it's a problem was specifically in some Sony mirrorless cameras where the raw file wasn't actually raw, and had some additional unwanted in-camera processing 

--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Sébastien Doré
 

Just found that article from 2015 by Alan Dyer which seem to imply that Nikons did have some star-eating characteristics at some point but that he didn't find evidence of it while comparing a D750 against a 6D. (Scroll down to the "Test #2 - Resolution" section)




De : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> de la part de Seb@stro <sebastiendore1@...>
Envoyé : 1 novembre 2021 12:07
À : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [ap-ug] Camera advice
 
Hey Brian,

I'm a bit surprised but that's good to know !

I have been under the impression that the long exposure NR was never entirely off in the Nikons for a long time. Dates back from when I first bought my Canon about 7-8 years ago when I was much less knowledgeable about photography and cameras, so I might have misunderstood how it worked or been mislead by some Canon aficionados at the time, IDK...

Anyway, that opens up a whole new branch of options to consider for my next DSLR purchase.

Sébastien


De : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> de la part de Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Envoyé : 1 novembre 2021 11:06
À : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [ap-ug] Camera advice
 
Hi Sébastien

>>>Just curious, does this one (or the newer Nikons in genereal) still have the per-shot dark substraction (a.k.a. "star-eating" noise reduction) always on like some (all ?) older models or can it be turned off like on the Canons ?

you can disable long exposure and/or high ISO noise reduction 

the "star eating" noise reduction where i've heard it's a problem was specifically in some Sony mirrorless cameras where the raw file wasn't actually raw, and had some additional unwanted in-camera processing 

--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Christopher Erickson
 

The old Nikon "star eaters" were back in the era of the Nikon D70 & D90. Long since obsolete cams.

"Always take the high road. There's less traffic."

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, Hawaii


Virus-free. www.avg.com


On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 6:34 AM Seb@stro <sebastiendore1@...> wrote:
Just found that article from 2015 by Alan Dyer which seem to imply that Nikons did have some star-eating characteristics at some point but that he didn't find evidence of it while comparing a D750 against a 6D. (Scroll down to the "Test #2 - Resolution" section)




De : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> de la part de Seb@stro <sebastiendore1@...>
Envoyé : 1 novembre 2021 12:07
À : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [ap-ug] Camera advice
 
Hey Brian,

I'm a bit surprised but that's good to know !

I have been under the impression that the long exposure NR was never entirely off in the Nikons for a long time. Dates back from when I first bought my Canon about 7-8 years ago when I was much less knowledgeable about photography and cameras, so I might have misunderstood how it worked or been mislead by some Canon aficionados at the time, IDK...

Anyway, that opens up a whole new branch of options to consider for my next DSLR purchase.

Sébastien


De : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> de la part de Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Envoyé : 1 novembre 2021 11:06
À : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [ap-ug] Camera advice
 
Hi Sébastien

>>>Just curious, does this one (or the newer Nikons in genereal) still have the per-shot dark substraction (a.k.a. "star-eating" noise reduction) always on like some (all ?) older models or can it be turned off like on the Canons ?

you can disable long exposure and/or high ISO noise reduction 

the "star eating" noise reduction where i've heard it's a problem was specifically in some Sony mirrorless cameras where the raw file wasn't actually raw, and had some additional unwanted in-camera processing 

--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Stuart
 

Sebastien, I have owned two D70's, two D300's, a D700 and currently own a D810a and Z6ii and ALL of them supported optional long exposure noise reduction. I think you were indeed misled by whoever told you otherwise.


On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 at 12:07, Seb@stro <sebastiendore1@...> wrote:
Hey Brian,

I'm a bit surprised but that's good to know !

I have been under the impression that the long exposure NR was never entirely off in the Nikons for a long time. Dates back from when I first bought my Canon about 7-8 years ago when I was much less knowledgeable about photography and cameras, so I might have misunderstood how it worked or been mislead by some Canon aficionados at the time, IDK...

Anyway, that opens up a whole new branch of options to consider for my next DSLR purchase.

Sébastien


De : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> de la part de Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Envoyé : 1 novembre 2021 11:06
À : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [ap-ug] Camera advice
 
Hi Sébastien

>>>Just curious, does this one (or the newer Nikons in genereal) still have the per-shot dark substraction (a.k.a. "star-eating" noise reduction) always on like some (all ?) older models or can it be turned off like on the Canons ?

you can disable long exposure and/or high ISO noise reduction 

the "star eating" noise reduction where i've heard it's a problem was specifically in some Sony mirrorless cameras where the raw file wasn't actually raw, and had some additional unwanted in-camera processing 

--
Brian 



Brian Valente


 

FYI for those interested in the "star eater" phenomenon, it was specifically in earlier Sony alpha series cameras. Sony mirrorless were/are quite popular for astroimaging so there was a lot of hullabaloo when this issue cropped up. it was later addressed in the A7III and later cameras




On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 10:01 AM Stuart <stuart.j.heggie@...> wrote:
Sebastien, I have owned two D70's, two D300's, a D700 and currently own a D810a and Z6ii and ALL of them supported optional long exposure noise reduction. I think you were indeed misled by whoever told you otherwise.


On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 at 12:07, Seb@stro <sebastiendore1@...> wrote:
Hey Brian,

I'm a bit surprised but that's good to know !

I have been under the impression that the long exposure NR was never entirely off in the Nikons for a long time. Dates back from when I first bought my Canon about 7-8 years ago when I was much less knowledgeable about photography and cameras, so I might have misunderstood how it worked or been mislead by some Canon aficionados at the time, IDK...

Anyway, that opens up a whole new branch of options to consider for my next DSLR purchase.

Sébastien


De : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> de la part de Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Envoyé : 1 novembre 2021 11:06
À : main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [ap-ug] Camera advice
 
Hi Sébastien

>>>Just curious, does this one (or the newer Nikons in genereal) still have the per-shot dark substraction (a.k.a. "star-eating" noise reduction) always on like some (all ?) older models or can it be turned off like on the Canons ?

you can disable long exposure and/or high ISO noise reduction 

the "star eating" noise reduction where i've heard it's a problem was specifically in some Sony mirrorless cameras where the raw file wasn't actually raw, and had some additional unwanted in-camera processing 

--
Brian 



Brian Valente



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Eric Weiner
 

The “star eating” feature is not present in the Nikon mirrorless cameras as far as I can tell. I don’t have experience with the newer Nikon DSLRs, but a little research shows that problem was taken care of on the newer bodies. I also own a Z6ii. It really is the best bang for the buck out there especially if one plans on using it for astrophotography and Milky Way shots. It compares closely to the R6, is better in some areas against the R6, and costs less. Nikon continues to put out meaningful firmware updates as well. We’re expecting a significant AF tracking firmware update soon based on the Z9 model. Both Nikon and Canon make fantastic lenses, but I think the Nikon Ultra-Wide zooms are +1 over Canon. Plus, the Z mount diameter of 55mm arguably allows for the use of f/1.8 lenses with the same photo quality as f/1.4 lenses with the F mount.

Eric